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| AoG.2y.net > A passing moment in the life of Gord > Children's drawings in the subway! |
| Posted by: Gord Jun 13 2005, 03:38 PM |
![]() At various subway stations in Korea, they often are decorated with school art projects at different times of the year. Fire safety, future jobs, home life, technology, and so on. ![]() The theme of this one appears to be "Fuck Japan!" ![]() Yep, "Fuck Japan" indeed. ![]() Bring your friends to the stomping parade! ![]() It appears to be asking why they do not die and leave Korea's rocks alone. ![]() The Japanese flags appear to stop burning once removed from a flame source. ![]() Rather creative use of combining flag burning and "shitty". ![]() This student skipped the metaphor and went for drawing the real deal. ![]() Korean movies will stab at Japan... ![]() ...and Japan will die. ![]() When not being burned or stomped, Japan's flag gets beat down by Korea's flag, ![]() The fires get moved from the flags to the mainland! But what caused the fire? ![]() Was it bombs? ![]() A war? ![]() Perhaps a really big war. ![]() Or maybe even Korean volanoes? ![]() "From Hell's heart, I stab at thee!" ![]() Those Japanese are pretty sneaky, so it seems the Koreans will need two knives. Or possibly three. ![]() Screw the knives, the mainland will fall when the handguns get whipped out. ![]() Will the hand of God strike Japan down? Perhaps so! ![]() Why all the anger? Basically it's over the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liancourt_Rocks. The Korean media decided to play up the issue this spring. And the Korean government rather than be mature about it and resolve it in the legal or political arena (legal being unlikely as few observers hold the opinion that Korea's claim will be upheld, and political resolution has not happened because it is unlikely that Japan will surrender all claims to the rocks), instead the government ordered the public schools to tell the students the Korean view without actually backing it up. And this is the result. ![]() Yep, hands off! ![]() It used to belong to Japan, but now it's Korean according to this picture. ![]() Look at how happy the locals are now that Japan is no longer around. ![]() Even Sailor Moon is saying "fuck Japan!" ![]() Someone went and tattooed a gaint outline of Korea on the rocks. Now Japan can't have them back. ![]() Japan can not reclaim the islands by force because the clouds will stop them. ![]() Another map to where the rocks are. ![]() Another photo of what the students are angry about for the wrong reasons. ![]() Though they will gang-beat any Japanese citizens who try and correct them. ![]() And they will beat them in the boats! ![]() They will do that because Japan is a nation of liars. ![]() A nation of liars led by a dog. ![]() Seems this child believes that Japan was formed by a rabbit. ![]() No matter how many times Japan says "sorry for the tough love", Korea will refuse to accept it. ![]() Perhaps nothing less than Japan's total surrender will suffice. ![]() Failure to surrender will result in the foot of Korea crushing down upon the Japanese. Or perhaps they'll do it after a surrender. My Korean isn't that good. ![]() Victory! ![]() There were many, many more. And more upstairs as well. But that is enough for now. ![]() Thus ends another happy day in Korea. http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1558 |
| Posted by: Patrick Lee Jun 13 2005, 05:25 PM |
| I was about to write something snide, but perhaps these rocks contain valuable resources. I remember a Transformer's episode where the Deceptacons found much bird guano with which to manufacture explosives on a similarly small and uninhabited island. |
| Posted by: Esbeemer Jun 13 2005, 05:50 PM |
| Ah... There is just something about Propaganda among the young that just brings a tear to your eye... Man, when I did similar things as a youth, I got promptly squashed by lengthy sessions with several psychitrists... I guess I should have lived in Korea... |
| Posted by: Beowulf Jun 13 2005, 08:44 PM |
| Really makes you wonder just how informed all these kids are on the subject... |
| Posted by: Patrick Lee Jun 14 2005, 02:06 AM |
| It makes me wonder how really informed we are as a culture on the things we feel (or are told to feel) strongly about. Where do textbooks come from anyway? |
| Posted by: Gradius-09 Jun 14 2005, 07:51 PM |
| Whatever Korean children are saying here in their drawings look so biased to me. And, something that is even more biasing is rather the view or this person who put biased captions for the kids' artworks. I think it's an ugly thing to manipulate and teach hatred to small kids. If college students in Korea are doing this kind of job, I would hear that voice, perhaps. On the one hand, in recent decades, Korea is starting to accept more from Japanese cultures, and Japan is starting to accept more and more from korean cultures. On the other hand, Korean kids are exposed to anger and political views that tries to separate friendship from Korea and Japan. You can have that kind of political stand if you are mature and responsible, but it is unfair to give small kids, who cannot argue yet, to agitate anger among kids' community. |
| Posted by: Gord Jun 14 2005, 08:05 PM |
| 望まれる: 年古いかわいい日本のガールフレンドの年齢 25 から31 。論議するべき電子メールshumway_g@hotmail.com 。 |
| Posted by: Necrite Jun 14 2005, 08:27 PM |
| I still can't see Asian characters in my browser, and ever if I could, I still can't read any Asian languages. Could we get someone to translate Gord's last post? |
| Posted by: Esbeemer Jun 14 2005, 09:10 PM | ||
Kids are biased. They can't help it. Children up to about age 7 or so are little tape recorders/DVRs of what they see and do around them. It's not manipulation - it's just a fact. And it's a fine line between Healthy Nationalistic Pride and Biased Hatred. Are images like this any worse than the 'Noble Savages' style of condinsending crap? I honestly don't think so. And every country deals out it's share of that. Especially America, which is the whole basis of the 'Ugly American In Europe' stereotype. I can easily imagine someone from Japan looking at this and saying, "Oh, it's so sad the Koreans are beyond reason to allow something like this to happen, but it is very Korean to do so." or "It's just how THEY are..." Feh. I'll stop now. |
| Posted by: rgsharpe Jun 14 2005, 10:03 PM | ||
What browser do you use? If you're using Firefox, try http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum21/10192.htm, and I can also highly recommend the http://moji.mozdev.org/ to translate the occasional kanji and hiragana/katakana. Unfortunately, I think I've learned enough Japanese in two semesters to mostly recognize what Gord said, but not at all enough to translate it for my fellow Anglophones. |
| Posted by: FF32 Jun 14 2005, 11:50 PM |
| Very interesting. Where can I see those drawings? |
| Posted by: Eve Jun 15 2005, 04:15 AM |
| This thread delivers. |
| Posted by: dan Jun 15 2005, 08:31 AM | ||||
I've seen some pictures of grown korean men soaked in gasolin torching themselves alive in protest.
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174156&page=20&pp=15http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174156&page=17&pp=15 *bows with palms placed together* I would like to humbly ask you a favor, my dear yanky friend, with blight blue eyez, to skim thru these pages *raises a heavy mallet and sounds the gong twice* |
| Posted by: Lyrt Jun 15 2005, 08:46 AM |
| 日本の読者諸氏へ これら韓国児童の絵の下にゴードが書き加えた文章は子供までをも反日運動に利用している韓国政府のやり方に対する痛烈な皮肉です。其処の所を良くお汲み取りください。 |
| Posted by: Lyrt Jun 15 2005, 09:31 AM | ||
It is supposed to mean Wanted: cute girlfriend, from 25 to 31 y.o. Please contact blablabla. As he used an automatic translator, the result is a faulty word by word rendering but it is “understandable”. |
| Posted by: Esbeemer Jun 15 2005, 02:30 PM | ||||||
Japanese men used to fly perfectly good aircraft into ships. Americans have a nasty habit of sending people to reservations/internment camps/etc. Australians eat yeast willingly. That doesn't really change the facts that a child's biases are a reflection of its' environment.
Blue eyes? Hell, my eyes are brown, as I am an American that is Full of Shit. And I'm a big fan of Eurpoean Football Hooliganism - I'm biased. |
| Posted by: Patrick Lee Jun 15 2005, 03:16 PM |
| I am an American and I willingly eat yeast too. |
| Posted by: llooll Jun 15 2005, 03:46 PM |
| Hello everyone. its llooll from Japan.I've just registered today. Gord-san,your forum is very interesting. Thank you for all the informations. I'm afraid that I won't to be able to send you an e-mail 'cause I AM Japanese but NOT YOUNG Japanese girl. I saw these drawings. It was so shocking. As a mother of two, I'm very anxious about those anti-Japan act in Korea. It's very easy to manipulate a pure child's mind. We should not involve our child in the controversy of the adult. I agree with befehlen "Children have to behave like children" I hope they will stop these act before things getting worth. Sleeping patriotism is now trying to wake up in Japan. sorry for strange English. |
| Posted by: Jabberwockysr Jun 15 2005, 04:17 PM |
| "Gord, the newest international incident between Korea and Japan!" All from a thread on his personal forum. |
| Posted by: llooll Jun 15 2005, 04:48 PM |
| Look at the numbers of the viewers! This forum became very popular in korea and Japan in 2DAYS! |
| Posted by: Gord Jun 15 2005, 05:29 PM |
| For every person that reads this thread, no less than five people see the pictures in hotlinks. I went through about 120GB in traffic yesterday on this subject alone. I built the server to handle anything, and so far it has performed remarkably in my observations. I have a spare drive in the server set to go in case I have to load-balance everything to make it faster. While I was amused by the pictures, I feel what the education ministry has organized here is entirely wrong. Teaching children to hate is very much uncool, and if the people who organized the project lost their jobs I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. What I have found interesting is how people are reacting (mostly through the translation feature of the Google taskbar) in other forums. Most of the Japanese posts appear to express concern that the Korean government did such a stunt especially during the "year of friendship" Korea and Japan are suppose to be having. A few Japanese posters have voiced opposition to allowing Korean cultural imports, but they are a minority. On the Korean side, few have expressed sorrow and it seems that most find the pictures quite funny or that Japan deserves it because they want to believe Japan is the evil empire. Except for one person who claimed that I drew the pictures myself. I'll return to the station this Friday to take some more pictures. The drawings were set up in a couple locations around the station and probably came close to a thousand pictures. |
| Posted by: Patrick Lee Jun 15 2005, 05:31 PM | ||
"It is desired. The fuel is supplied to quick-tempered national principle, thousand sketches from the child of the small attending school age where international incident is begun." I love automatic translators. |
| Posted by: Necrite Jun 15 2005, 08:24 PM | ||
In other words, six times the total listed on the board, or a little over 370,000 people in two days. If it stays this popular for a little while, the word of the Gord could reach over 1,000,000 people in just 5 to 6 days! And I thought the Xanga incident was a lot of people. On another note, can you provide links to the sites that are generating these links Gord, or are they still coming up as blanks on your referral logs? |
| Posted by: Captured Jun 15 2005, 09:20 PM |
| hi, everyone. nice to meet you. Gord, I'm sorry, I'm not a pretty japanese girl friend but just another japanese guy. thanks, Lyrt. of course, I got it. I know children in korea are innocence personified. and so I feel just a bit disappointed. as far as I know, many japanese internet users seem to read this topic and these pics cynically with cold eyes. maybe they dont feel their hearts broken any more. cuz having already been used to anti-Japanese sentiments and behaviors from korea. it's nearly late. that's all. |
| Posted by: Necrite Jun 16 2005, 02:35 AM |
| Well, a http://www.altavista.com/web/results?itag=ody&q=%22aog.2y.net%22+%2Bjapan+%2Bkorea+%2Bsubway&kgs=1&kls=0 turned up four relevant linkt. One to this thread, one to the first post of this thread, and two on Japanese sites. But these are just copies of this page with no other pages - from here or elsewhere - on either of the sites. While they are responsible for some (all?) of the hotlinks, they don't tell us why all these Japanese people are visiting. llooll and Captured - you seem to be here as a result of this. Where did you first find these links? |
| Posted by: IWCTY Jun 16 2005, 02:58 AM |
| I found about this thread via 2ch (Huge Japanese BBS site) and most likely others found it in same way. Now, most of the traffics seem to be diverted toward multiple mirrors (created without permission or any pointers to where they copied it from, lack of proper etiquettes on 2ch user parts are disappointing). |
| Posted by: YRM Jun 16 2005, 01:15 PM |
| The pictures are pretty sad, both in content and quality of artwork. What kid drew that one later in the thread bashing America? It was worse than all the other ones the Korean kids drew in terms of quality, humor and accuracy. The kids doing this don't seem much different than college kids protest marching against things they don't fully understand either. Even if these kids were fully educated to both sides of a political issue, they'd still pick a side based on however their parents believe at this point. There is enough diversity of news in S. Korea, I'd think, that the many of these kids will remember how they were propagandized as they get older and start questioning things like: - Is the government propaganda accurate, or blatantly manipulative. - Are the people protesting the government being fair minded about it? ...or simply bashing anything and everything a government does, even if it actually agrees with their position this time, just because they've picked a side and can't give anyone on the other side even the slightest benefit of the doubt. Ever. People that actually look closely at an issue and decide for themselves, for example how Gord does (from what I can tell he's not blindly Liberal, Conservative, or anything other than an independent thinker), are speaking out more and hopefully this helps issues like this not develop into a KKK style racial bias against Japan by the kids that drew this stuff. |
| Posted by: Captured Jun 16 2005, 06:29 PM | ||||
I knew this topic at a blog which sends out the informations of the situation in east asia at first. and then I took a look at 2ch, which IWCTY noted. I'm appalled by the violent expressions contained within some drawings. bombing, shooting, knives, stomping, and putting on fire. although they are still children...... therefore I feel at ease with looking at the last drawing of two giraffes. if japan and korea were like those two chummy giraffes, that would be too good.
if these kids realize in the future that they were exploited for political propaganda as you YRM would think, I worry whether they can have healthy nationalistic pride. |
| Posted by: mithridates Jun 17 2005, 12:25 AM |
| Gord, I had no idea you had your own forum; I saw a post on Dave's yesterday and came here to sign in. Do you mind if I put the pictures up on my Cyworld site? No hotlinking there, of course. でね日本人の彼女が欲しいんだったら福岡に一回行ってみるのがいいんじゃない?韓国に近いし福岡の女性はより正常的な性格を持ってる、方言も可愛いし Okay, now it's time to see what I can do on this board. |
| Posted by: gwangjuboy Jun 17 2005, 02:29 AM |
| Maybe the English can start a similarly absurd campaign against the Argies! 포클랜드 제도는 우리땅! I am sure English elementary students could draw some pictures to rival those that we saw on the first page. |
| Posted by: duport8031 Jun 17 2005, 09:52 AM |
| Gord, Very interesting! I've never seen such paintings. It is hard to believe that the teachers, who are supposed to provide their students with correct knowledge and equal viewpoint, allowed, or even encouraged them to draw these ugly works. It looks like Korean teachers stopped to think rationally and just propagating government-made hatred against Japanese. In most Western civilized country, students have freedom to choose from several different textbooks. Some are slightly right, some are slightly left, and kids will be differ in their viewpoint, but nobody will blame others for what they believe. That is democracy. However, in both Koreas, (and not to mention in communist China), they allow only one government-made textbook. Kids are forced to believe what are written in their one-and-only textbook. And of course, textbooks will be freely re-written by their government at their convenience whatever the historical facts. Thus, sadly, kids are brainwashed very efficiently enough to draw these ugly pictures. I believe, what we are seeing here is a Korean version of the "brainwashing the kids with distorted history" that happened in China in '90s. In China, it resulted in recent anti-Japanese riots by youngsters. So maybe we will see similar things happen in Seoul in 2010's. In this context, I think we should not be naive to believe that Korea is a true democratic country. It rather is a totalitarian state. And we should be aware that, it is highly possible that South Korea will be absorbed into China-North Korea complex in the near future and become an enemy of Western democratic countries. |
| Posted by: Lyrt Jun 17 2005, 10:31 AM |
| Note to every newcomer: You’ll find the forum rules http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=794. I especially wanted to remind everybody that most of the regular posters here don’t understand Japanese and that it would facilitate mutual comprehension to provide an English translation for every Japanese or Korean link you post. If there’s an idea you want to convey but your English really, really sucks, you can post it in Japanese and I’ll provide a translation. That being said, I’m back to work. I’ll post my own arguments later. PS: fugue, could you please check your PM box? |
| Posted by: Patrick Lee Jun 17 2005, 05:22 PM |
| This forum made monkeyfilter.com today...a whole new bunch of banana flingers to add to the fun. |
| Posted by: ravencroft Jun 17 2005, 08:53 PM |
| Hell, I'll throw one in for the show. One, I don't think anyone posting here can REALLY claim that they KNOW what the fact is. Nobody here was even alive at the time, much less be there to see what actually happened. In my opinion, the strongest claim anyone here can make is that they accurately "remember" _some other person's_ interpretation of the events. Never mind that it's currently "widely believed as fact" from whereever you are. That can change at any point. So I honestly don't think it's anyone's call to give out history lessons. You know your version. Others know theirs. The truth, as always, is probably somewhere in the middle. Maybe Japan really did renovate Korea and brought them out of the dark ages. Maybe they really did fuck them over and rape their women. Nobody here KNOWS what happened, so don't try to teach your version of truth to others. Are you all SO hardheaded that you cannot allow for even the slightest possibility that what the other person is saying MIGHT be true? That being said... I don't know what produced these pictures. Maybe the teachers encouraged it. Or it could have been the result of the version of this history taught in Korea. Perhaps it was the result of recent government propaganda which some have mentioned. Maybe it's just a hip cool thing to bash Japan in that school. Whatever caused it, I am surprised that it ultimately ended up in display in a public place like that. I mean, come ON! Am I the only person seeing the uncanny violence portrayed in these pictures? Little KIDS produced these pictures, and it's not just one or two kids with mental poblems. Never mind the historical background, the teachers should have told the kids that it's wrong to drop bombs in any country for any reason (a lesson many Americans could stand to learn, I might add - a one G. Bush, for one. ...my two cents. |
| Posted by: ravencroft Jun 17 2005, 09:02 PM |
| Oh, and just out of curiousity... Which subway station IS this anyway? I'm currently residing in Seoul area and if these pictures are still up there, I would like to see these pictures in person. (Not because I doubt their exsistance... I just want to see what other kids drew, and if at all possible, identify where they came from) |
| Posted by: dogbert Jun 18 2005, 10:28 AM |
| Whenever some naif tells me that the "young generation" of Koreans is/will be far less xenophobic than their parents, I remember garbage like the drawings Gord posted. If anything, it is getting worse with each new generation. |
| Posted by: shebang Jun 18 2005, 12:11 PM |
| Hello Gord! Here comes the world famous cute young Japanese Girl, yes I am. Oops, am going to be 30 later this year but still looks very young and energetic, so I reckon myself a young Japanese Girl, so it's A-OK. Anyway, I want to ask you to have a look on this Flash site in here http://www.geocities.jp/flash9735/korean_children.html this flash was made for all the non-Japanese people even including Koreans. We need to understand what is most evil really. Thanks very much and want to return to this site under the different topic. |
| Posted by: Beowulf Jun 18 2005, 07:04 PM |
| Cool, I like how you quoted Gord for a good portion of it! Oh well, the beginning was cute. |
| Posted by: mithridates Jun 19 2005, 02:53 AM |
| Okay, I got the first batch up on my Cyworld page. What's up with that 태국기 drawing anyway? I suppose they meant to write 태극기? 태국 would be Thailand. |
| Posted by: ducrtqwfyn Jun 22 2005, 03:06 PM |
| Heh, Darkflame. Korea being split on their opinion about Japan? Like whether to nuke them and cleanse them from the surface of this planet or to concur them and enslave them? Seriously if the burning hatred toward Japan wasn't shared by virtually everyone in Korea, one of the following would have happened: 1) Teacher, upon seeing students' drawings, raises alarm. Exhibit gets cancelled. 2) Parent, upon hearing about it from their children, raises alarm. Exhibit gets cancelled. 3) Organizer of the exhibit, upon reviewing drawings they received, raises alarm. Exhibit gets cancelled. 4) Official at subway station, upon realizing the content of exhibition, raises alarm. Exhibit gets cancelled. This is what will happen in sane country but obviously none of this happened in Korea. Are sane adults near extinct in Korea? Or are they afraid to voice their opinion against the passionate and radical majority? Likely it's both. This realization is what shocks many people. It's not the content of these drawings that is most shocking. What really appalls people from sane part of world is the state of Korean culture that allowed this to be displayed at public place. |
| Posted by: rene Jun 23 2005, 01:53 PM |
| For those Americans, especially those who grew up as a kid in the 80s, think of the following for perspective: When you were a kid, what was your image of the Soviet Union? When Reagan himself was calling the Soviet Union "the Evil Empire" and when you grew up watching movies like "Rocky" and "Rambo", didn't you believe that the Soviet Union should be wiped off the face of the earth? Specifically, if, in your childhood, you were told that the Soviet Union claimed "Alaska was Soviet territory" on the basis that they discovered it first and had occupied it before, what would be your reaction? If you were to draw a picture to protest the upsurd Soviets, those as evil as Darth Vader and his troops, what would you have drawn, as a kido? |
| Posted by: Patrick Lee Jun 23 2005, 02:26 PM | ||
rene wrote:
I am one of those kids that feared the Soviet Union, just I had fear when the Berlin Wall came down and I no longer had an "enemy" (imagine that). I see a crucial distinction, however, in my situation and the situation of these middle-schoolers in Korea. When I went to school and voiced the fears of myself (and really, of my parents), many of my teachers guided me in a direction that encouraged intellectual and emotional growth, rather than unexamined fear. Because I have been handled well by those responsible for my development, I feel generally equipped to take a critical stance when confronted with the unknown and unexamined. If teachers are not providing the same guidance to children, in the U.S., Japan, Korea, Russia, China, or any other country, then they are serving the state's interests over the interests of the children with whom they have been entrusted. Kids are going to be kids, making it all the more important that the adults that surround them act like mature, rational, and mentoring individuals rather than tools of propoganda. |
| Posted by: Beowulf Jun 23 2005, 03:33 PM | ||
Yes there was a very real fear back then that the Soviets could have quite easily wiped America off the face of the earth. They didn't hate the USSR they feared the USSR. There's an important difference. Even though yes many people did take it too far but after the Cold War ended, most people looked at their anti-commie attitudes and just sort of went, 'well no point to this anymore.' Your 'Alaska Territory' claim makes no sense as they bought Alaska from russia at a price tag of a little under 2 cents per acre. They bought about 600000 square miles with this price. As to your film references, Rocky IV was pretty much hailed as a crappy film during its release, and Rambo took place in Vietnam so I don't see any argument there. |
| Posted by: Esbeemer Jun 23 2005, 06:01 PM | ||
I have a story about this. When I was growing up, my mother actually got a subscription to the English language version of Pravda, which was more like a monthly magazine than the newspaper it was in the Soviet Union. She gave me a copy to read one day (my hobby in Junior High was the study of Nuclear Weapons and their strategic value) with a warning, "This is their side. Read it. You pretty much know our side of the equation. I've found in cases like this, the truth is in the middle." Oddly enough, that's pretty much the way it wound up being after the wall came down. the USSR was a superpower with clay feet, but the people firing the kilns weren't rabid psycho nutcases - They were just people trying to put food on the table like so many other people in many other cultures. I rather liked Rocky IV and Rambo II, but I surely didn't concider it real. I was raised better than that. And I was even raised in the shadows of ICBMs. Heck, Nuclear Proliferation is how my parents met. The kid's drawings were, simply, poor propiganda. I don't blame the kids for drawing what they do - Kids are mean-hearted people toward things or people they hate (for whatever reason). When I was very young, I admit would have done similar things. But the following things would have happened: A ) I'm sure my teacher at the time would have informed me that such images are not really appropriate, whether or not they were 'accurate' with the propiganda in the news or whatever. B ) I know for a fact that my parents (Mom, specifically) would have done bad, bad things to my tiny hide. The first time I used the word 'nigger' in a derogatory way, my mother (who was cooking at the time) thwaped my shoulder hard enough to draw blood with the metal spoon in her hand. No stitches or any major damage, but I'll be damned if I'm going to try to do that again - Even thirty years later... |
| Posted by: Hardware Jun 24 2005, 12:01 AM | ||
As a youngster in Michigan, I was never taught to hate the people of the U.S.S.R. Certainly, we were afraid of the Soviets, but, as has been voiced already here, hate and fear are two different things. We were told that communism was evil, but never were we made to believe that all Soviet people were evil. I had a high school teacher who spoke Russian; who owned his own copy of Mao's little red book; who taught a class called Dictatorships & Democracies. Many many other teachers also made sure we knew what made a government bad or good. Never were we told to hate people. Early on, in a Sunday school class at my church, I can remember using the word hate, and being told that hate is a four-letter word, and Christian's don't hate anyone. So no, I did not grow up believing the Soviet Union should be wiped off the face of the earth. I grew up believing that a nuclear war would wipe out all of us, friend and enemy, and quite possibly leave nothing but the cockroaches to clean up after us. Secondly, we were taught quite early on in American history about the Lousiana Purchase, whereby we bought ourselves a large bit of the U.S.A. from the French; and the purchase of Alaska from the Russians at $.02/acre; and the better-late-than-never compensation to Mexico for the land we took from them in a war years earlier to make it easier for a set of train tracks to come through. I am quite sure that had I taken an art class in middle school, the art teacher would have fainted at the thought of his/her class being used as a tool of propoganda. So there ya go. Little long-winded, but nothing compared to some posts lately. I look forward to, in the future, this forum going back to being slightly more trivial in nature, and a lot less serious. James |
| Posted by: lorddpod Jun 24 2005, 05:30 AM |
| As many of my post usually are this one will likely be deleted in the near future as it likely will have no more effect than echoing the previous post by Hardware. Its just that his description is very much a mirror of my own time in school . My teacher did a very good job separating the fact and fiction about the cold war era , and how a government and its people are not as evil or stupid as the people who have the power in whatever country they happen to rule. I was taught that the Soviet people weren't as evil as Stalin who was a maniac. i was taught that because greedy men had taken power that the general populace were suffering while blinded by nationalist pride so that they didn't see there own suffering . That made them blind not evil i never hated any of the Russian i grew up with or meet at the time . Teaching hate in any capacity is wrong, and a abuse of power and just morally deplorable. I apologize for that slight tangent but the heaviness of the board has been getting to me as i am fairly ignorant of the Korean history after or during ww2 as I was always more enraptured by the European conflict . |
| Posted by: rene Jun 25 2005, 05:04 PM | ||
On my point that these Korean kids sentiments do not differ too much from American kids of the 80s I think has been conveyed enough. As for the line btw "fear" and "hatred", it is very thin. The Nazi's hated the Jews cause they were afraid the Jews were gonna take over the world (they even believed communism was a Jewish consipiracy). The American hate the Muslim fundementalist cause they fear they may strike another 9.11. And Yes, I agree it was wrong for the teachers to have left those hate-ridden pictures there. But the fact is MOST of the pictures were peaceful protests and a MINORITY of them violent. So, considering the universality of such sentiments among Korean and American kids, and the fact it was a small part of the exhibition should be enough basis to say that it would be a great exaggeration and sheer xenphobia (much like those of Korean kids), as some posters have said here, to claim that these few pictures show that Korean people (the majority who are adults, and peaceful) are Japanese-hating-violent-madmen. |
| Posted by: rene Jun 25 2005, 05:12 PM | ||||
Yes, and American were ready to wipe USSR and the Soviet bloc off the face of the earth in case they were threatened! Nuke War was a doom-doom scenario. As for fear and hate, I have written above, it basically stems from each other. My citing Alaska was to give you an example, not a factual event, that would allow you to understand what these Korean children may have felt. It was purely to show something that would have had the same emotional effect on American kids of that time. A mind game, that;s all, so dont be upset. Rocky IV is a crappy film, but it doesn't change the fact that kids, uncritically, absorb the good-bad dictonomy in the movie, and how they see for themselves how the soviets are really really evil. Rambo took place in Vietnam, but in the movie, it is Soviet intelligence officers and paratroopers who kidnap, toture and kill Rambo and his comrades, so there is relevance. (Yet the truth of History is the Soviet Union didnt send combat troops to Vietnam and they avoided direct contact with the US troops lest it may lead to WWIII.) |
| Posted by: rene Jun 25 2005, 05:18 PM | ||||
Yes, kids are prone to draw such pictures. To make a huge fuss over them is itself biased and unwarrented. And Yes, the sad part is the teachers didn't do so for these Korean kidswhat your teachers would have done for you. But as I wrote above such violent inappropriate pictures were a minority out of all the pictures on that subway. And the actually Korean middleschool site uploaded only the peaceful ones. The teachers knew violent ones were not appropriate but they could selectively take those down and then teach the kids it wasnt so--this is the sad part. But still this doesn't legitimize all the Korean-hating going on here on some posts, which I find to be even less-grounded than the attacks on those pics. |
| Posted by: rene Jun 25 2005, 05:22 PM | ||
There aren't any pictures there explicitly "demonizing" the Japanese PEOPLE or making racist expressions about them. It's all about Japan as a nation and as a state. Of course, these kids dont differenciate btw people and the government, but at least their pictures weren;t about attacking Japanese people. You dont see any derisive words like "Jjok-bari" which is like calling a black "nigger." No, these Kids also are not "demonizing" common Japanese people. As for hate and fear and Alaska, read my above posts. |
| Posted by: Gord Jun 26 2005, 12:22 AM | ||||||||||||
Perhaps you have missed the pictures showing the Japanese as having buck teeth or as being monkeys.
Perhaps you missed the pictures about where they were inflicting violence on generic citizens.
The fuss is over that this project which ended up promoting a substantial number of violent or racist pictures was encouraged and rewarded by both the education ministy and the government owned subway corporation.
While pictures encouraging or rewarding violence were indeed a minority, there were hundreds of them.
They shouldn't have gone up in the first place. Each picture was drawn and then applied to a larger piece of cardboard. The second anything resembling racism or violence was spotted, it should have been removed. And it is not as though as though one or two accidentally got through unspotted
What "Korean-hating" is going on? Though if you want hate, you should have seen many of the posts deleted (while mostly attacking me for being more retarded than one can possibly imagine, some were doing nothing more than insulting Korea) or what has come into my email box. |
| Posted by: rika Jun 26 2005, 04:19 AM |
Among Koreans, it seems that it is not considered anything immoral to express Hate toward Japanese people.![]() telop: "I suggest it's a good idea that we invade Japan" ![]() The sign says "Japanese, not allowed to enter" ![]() ![]() The flag says "we welcome you, The War Criminal" |
| Posted by: rika Jun 26 2005, 06:21 AM |
| forgot to add an explanation to the second picture from the bottom; The face printed on the red banner cloth is of An Jung-geun, a Korean who assassinated Hirofumi Ito, Japan's first, 5th, 7th and 10th Prime Minister. Hirofumi Ito is a respected historical figure in Japan while An Jung-geun is a national hero in Korea. I personally find it is against manner to display such banner cloth and insult opponent team. |
| Posted by: Rio Jun 26 2005, 07:18 AM |
| Perhaps the definition of "hate" for some Koreans are different from ours. For some Koreans, hating, bashing, insulting Japanese are common sense, so they may not feel those are "hate". ![]() After the Niigata Earthquake, some Korean networkers started posting like "Die more! They are killed because of their past faults", "This is punishment of Heaven. One of the most sneakiest race in the world is "Jjok-Bari" (meaning is "pig's leg, the word for insulting Japanese)". If Japan and Korea were at war, I might imagine those performances, but Pacific War ended 60 years ago, and Japan and Korea have never been at war... |
| Posted by: zepher Jun 26 2005, 09:04 PM |
| Probably many Japanese don't know that Korea teaches hate as long as they don't start searching about history on the internet. (I actually had been wondering about the claims of Korea and the crack between both Korea and Japan, then started to learn what's going on.) We don't know something like the pics posted above as long as we watch TV programe. We don't know that some Japanese fishermen were killed by Korea when they got into their sea. (I'm so sorry I don't have an evidence. I just read it somewhere.lol) So, I consider most Japanese know very well that Korean's getting angry at the text book and the island and the protests, and many of them think that's very right to be blamed because Japan only did very bad horrible things in Korea during the war, as we never learn good things like civilization in Korea at school in Japan. (now it is going to be revealed that Korean made some of the stories later though.) Besides, we can see only very nice part of Korea like "Japan-feel" among Korean younger generation on TV. "It is said" on the internet that Japanese media is amazingly claimed by Korean organizations or something like that in Japan when they report something bad about Korea- for examle, the facts that they teach hate, or some treaties related to the island or comfort women - although it is true. I don't think it would be the only reason of their narrow report though, I could say that both Japanese and Korean media and education are very strange. I was so shocked when I first saw the pictures by Koreand kids and now I'm wondering what's going on in Japan and Korea and their citizens. (and China if I may add here. heh heh) I'm afraid that when those kids get older and become politicians, they might cause a war easily. Japanese education is not so good now (they teach kids hate-Japan as Korea does), the same thing would suit to Japanese kids. And Japanese people don't have sense of constructioning of the peace and keep staying happily there(it's been too peace to notice that in Japan so far), I think Japanese have to learn that without enemies and staying in the middle. |
| Posted by: Gord Jun 27 2005, 02:14 AM | ||||||
The teaching of "hate Japan" in Korea started decades ago, while Internet usage in Japan is subtantially more recent.
Perhaps you could provide some examples of this hate you claim exists.
Have you met a single Japanese person in your entire life? Please show us some evidence that supports your claim. |
| Posted by: Joe Jun 27 2005, 04:15 AM | ||
Ah...... well, they just do not know what they are doing. There are crazy people in any country. Franky, howevber, a strange thing with Korea is that its government seems to be taking the major role in promoting hatred particularly toward Japan. Thus, the government is helping producing more crazy people. "Look at the anger of our people!" This is a type of message the government wants to appeal to the world, I guess. Childrens' drawing stuff in this thread is another example and the government might have thought it is a terrific idea. But it does not work. No way. Actually it works adversely. Moreover, it is not a question of whether it works or not. So I feel sorry for the Korean parents whose children are being taught hatred at school and I do hope that very few parents if not none are pround of that. |
| Posted by: Joe Jun 27 2005, 04:51 AM | ||
So looks like I was wrong. "hate-Japan" education in Korea is sort of traditional. If that is the case, many parents might have been proud of their children drawing "hate-Japan" pictures. ah ha! So we, Japanese, have to give up everything to Korea to look friendly to them. That is not called friendship in my dictionary........... |
| Posted by: watoro Jun 27 2005, 12:55 PM | ||||
Question to rene and Gord
Gord, rene, Could you give me a rough guess what percentage of the pictures were violent/racially offensive?
Could you provide me a little more information about that? I tried on this site:http://www.gyeyang.ms.kr/ but since I can't understand hungul, I can't find anything except the poster of the exhibition... Thank you in advance |
| Posted by: zepher Jun 27 2005, 07:36 PM | ||||||||||
Gord, those are my experiences and thoughts.
I see. I learned that teaching of "hate Japan" through a book written by a Korean woman. As I studied about femminism in Japan and there're many Korean classmates, and I heard that it's hard for women to say somthing in study fields in Korea, I just wanted to see what she said Korea and Japan. And I learned a little about the civlization in Korea from that book, too, though it's about the interviwes of people's life during the ww2 in Korea.
I'm a Japanese and took whole education in Japan. As I didn't interested in the world history at all for years till a few months ago, I believed what I'd learned at Japanese public school; Japan killed lots of people in China and raped too many girls and robbered too many things from Asian coutries. They did terrible things and I always felt sorry for especially Chinese and Koreans, and I agreed that their never endress claims and wanting much money for years. And I'd really really hated Japan and all the ancestors who did the things like that in the war and Japanese army, though my grand mothers brothers were killed in that war(she never talked about the war and died last year). I let that hate go when I got in an university. As I thought it's too old to consider or to be botherd. But basically I hated Japan till last year, and I don't know now. When I read the book by a Korean woman and other infomation on the website, I felt released from a very black side a little. Because I knew that Japan didn't do only terrible things to other people in the war. And that changed my view of the world and I started to study and consider that war as it is related to another countries and situations in the whole world then, and the world now. As you wrote before, each prefecture in Japan has their way to teach kids at school. But at the same time, history is much depends on teachers' knowledges actually. Many students go to another kind of shool after normal school, so they might learn defferent view from other teachers or text books. But unfortunately, my prefecture seemed to be very famouse for under influences of Japanese teaching association (I'm not sure in English but something like that.), which choses and desides which history text book is good or terrible. And their standards are how we feel bad to Japanese army and wars. http://www.geocities.co.jp/WallStreet/4759/20010714.html (Sorry it's only in Japanese) http://blog.livedoor.jp/lancer1/archives/cat_719972.html (It is also in Japanese) I didn't believe that some Japanese seem to deny or perish the terrible things Japan did in the war from the history a few months ago. I thought that war time was all painted too dark. But now I learned it's neccesarry to distingish good things and bad things in the war time. And it would be good if one of the text books teaches that. (But at the same time we could warn that it's easy to become too right wing, though now in Japan any examine or overhauling about something in the war seems to be taken as a very right wing.) But still I feel it's very much taboo to discuss something about the war in Japan. I talked with some of my Japanese friends but I didn't know how many of them tried to know what really happened in the war time and why the relationships between Korea and Japan seems too comlicated by themselves (but we are doing very well and friendly on Japanese TV shows). I don't usually talk about history with my friends, so I don't know what others think. and, I'm skeptical what I read on the website. I need to read books by myself. I'm still studying. And also I'm asking my friends what they exactly learned about the history in school, too. For 60 years, Japan teaches only terrible part of the war with the Japanese teachers association. So that's why I said that Japan is teaching "hate- Japan" in Japan. Though they never make us paint terrible pictures like Korea. But apparently, that education isn't good, I think. Lacking of self confedence to be born as a Japanese. Bad for mentality. But other Japanese? here (they seem much younger than me) don't say much about that. The one who wrote before (sorry I forgot the name, probably yoshi uk ) seemed to have had better one than mine. It would really depends on prefectures and teachers.
I meant.. I just considered. When I was in Canada a month ago, three persons talked about the peace in their neigborhood at a different time. All of them said they had responsibility and right to live feeling secured and happy with neigbors from different cultures. In fact, one of them asked me where I came from and if I had a permission to stay my frined's house when I was with my another friend, and he made me call my friend and the owner of the building. That's totally new for me as a Japanese. The states started to take finger prints form anyone who has no visa, and I was taken when I passed there to Canada. I thought it's overprotective first, but considered about the fear for the terrorists in the states, and, permitted myself to be taken them. Japan stopped to take finger prints from visiters recently, on the other hand. I don't like to be taken. But it seems against the current of the world, doesn't it? So I just thought that's weird. Did all make sense? |
| Posted by: zepher Jun 29 2005, 10:48 AM |
| this is how china teaches kids hate-japan. chinese people never be taught that after the war japan helped them and paid more than 3.000.000.000.000 yen to develop china. http://blog.livedoor.jp/lancer1/ and this is the result. http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~kokumin-shinbun/H10/1009/100917propaganda.html and then I had to be taught "hate japan" as a japanese in japan (as i wrote before in poor english, i didn't learn that japan civilized and made public schools in korea.) and now china wants the states to tell the same story; the massacre or comfort women whether its numbers of the victims and exsistence are true or not (and it's taboo to examine and repot it) then the numbers of the people in the world who know or believe on those stories would be increasing, and the stories settle in the real truth in the world history. that's their strategy. and korea takes advatege of that and, uses citizens, too. i'm just looking for the truth but anti japan education in both countries and the people who are made to be blind and their emotional reports over the world make it very difficult. |
| Posted by: Lyrt Jun 30 2005, 09:11 AM |
| Hello, this is Lyrt. Off-topic posts from the children's drawings threads have been moved here: http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1603 http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1557 Warning: from now on, I'll delete off-topic posts. If they prove interesting, I'll move them in the appropriate section. Thank you. |
| Posted by: kazriko Jul 6 2005, 06:52 PM |
| Of all those images the one I found most interesting (at least once I found out it was South Korea) was the one with the volcano. The volcano was in North Korea from the looks of it... And looked to depict a unified Korea too. Bizarre. |
| Posted by: addisonp Jul 8 2005, 07:53 PM |
| BitterSweet brings up a good point that history should not be forgotten and I agree whole heartedly with that point, but then saying how you do not think you and your fellow countrymen and women will ever let go of the hatred is just irrational. You seem to be pointing the finger at deeds done by another generation and then blaming the current/future generations for the wrongs done by their ancestors. Do you really think that is the best route to go, hating another people for deeds done say 50, 100, 500 or even 1000 years ago? Yes the Japanese during their time in WW ][ did cause anguish to those under their occupations. But as pointed out, they have apologized for their deeds many times and even gave the Korean government large sums of money to be distributed to those that were wronged by the Japanese during that time in the mid 20th century. Yes even my family was affected by the Japanese occupation, but I do not hold a hatred for the Japanese as you do. I wasn’t taught by anyone to hate another for deeds done by their ancestors, that just doesn’t make any sense to me. It seems to me that the whole thing boils down to, teaching children to hate is wrong, and the retorts to how Koreans will never forgive Japan for the wrongs done during WW ][ does show me that even if it’s wrong it sure seems to have come to pass. The Korean and even the Chinese government has taught it’s people to hate another for past deeds, now you have got to wonder will this eventually bite them in the arse. |
| Posted by: rika Jul 22 2005, 06:45 AM | ||||
Japanese history books focuse on the negative side of the role of Japan during WWII and paid very little effort to make children to think and question the reasons why Japan acted the way it did in the broader perspective. Japanese school history books have been written under the influences of the extreme left-wing organization and heavily reflected China and Korean perspectives. Because Kids learn to see the events from China and Korean perspectives, they end up denying our national identity. It has been a serious issue in Japan that our children have difficulties building inner self-esteem for their identities of nationality and heritage. That is the very reason of the rise of the controvertial new textbook. Here are some good examples of the result of building low self-esteem, sense of sin education in Japan. Japanese school children apologizing to Korean people during school trip to Korea. ![]() 60 Japanese wives married to Koreans apologizing in front of 1000 Korean elders. ![]() Neither the school children nor the Japanese wives must have no idea to defend themselves when they are accused about the atrocities of our grandfathers and asked to apologize for that. They just apologize when asked because we are just tought "we were BAD" and "our grandfathers did awful things to Korean People." This is not at all a healthy reaction. |
| Posted by: onaraotaku Jul 25 2005, 06:32 PM | ||
I'm not sure what you mean by defending oneself when accused. If they are being accused why do they have to apologize? and if they are married to Koreans, wouldn't they have been told of the Japanese atrocities? I mean the Japanese apologize for everything, they say sorry at every chance they get, sorry this, sorry that, i'm sorry i'm sorry sorry sorry. It gets annoying hanging out with my cousins, tired of them apologizing for things that dont need an apology. I say to them "You say sorry too much", and my cousins says back "oh i'm sorry". so annoying. For a culture that is in constant apology mode, the government can not issue an official apology and acknowledgement of the atrocities. I can understand people's fustration, annoyance and anger at this. I mean, the continual visits to the shrine, even when the government agreed some 20 years ago, albeit "gentlemen's agreement," to not visit the shrine, and they still visit the shrine... empty... all empty... |
| Posted by: rika Jul 26 2005, 07:26 AM | ||||||||
Yes, the Japanese wives are well-aware of the Japanese atrocities that China and Korea are accusing about bacause they learned the history so too. But what I want to say is that Japan had its reasons for its actions on the course of the country's history. If you start to see the event in a much broader perspective, Japan was not simply a bad guy... at least in my perspective. But the Japanese children are not taught the reasons why the country decded to act the way it did. Japan had been abandoning its rights to defend the ancestors against accusations that lack foundation evidence.
What else we could have done?
official apologies made by Japanese government; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan
Can you direct me to any source for the agreement you mention here? I am not aware of the Japanese government for officially making an agrreement not to visit Yasukuni. |
| Posted by: Miyako Jul 29 2005, 10:02 AM | ||
Because I am not good at English, the machine translation is used. When it is sentences not read easily, I'm sorry. rika, Dissidents of Unification Church access Weblog that I manage. Official website of the Unification Church http://www.unification.org/ Korea is "Messiah nation. " according to the doctrine of Unification Church. And, Japan is "Eve nation (nation by which the original sin doesn't disappear). " Sun Myung Moon who is the founder of a religion says, "The Christ failed in the relief of the world". 「As for the Prophet, I had it marry a Korean woman with the Christ. They were liberated by the spiritual world. 」He says. In the religion, it is taught, "Keep paying Korea money by Japan for war reparations". A lot of Japanese women are made to marry the South Korean man. As for photographs of Japanese women whom you are posting, dissidents say so and are .. "We think that they are the active service believer of Unification Church. " |
| Posted by: rika Jul 29 2005, 02:10 PM |
| So you are saying that these women are memebers of the Unification Church and they are apologizing because they are Japanese and are born sin? I cannot understand how these women came to believe in such religiion with such an awful doctrine. |
| Posted by: Miyako Jul 29 2005, 03:04 PM | ||
The demand of Unification Church is the severest with Japan. Because this is a cult religion using Japanese psychology who is the people of the defeated country. The people of the victim of this cult say so. 「Educators in Japan should have taught the history of Japan more correctly. Japan that was the defeated country did not one-sidedly give them bad room for the doubt because of the inculcation in the student. We who became believers of the cult religion also think that there was carelessness. However, the number of victims of Unification Church is sure to have decreased if an educational field of Japan improves the history education earlier. 」 You do not know people of the victim of the cult religion and do not get to know. Therefore, I think that understanding is difficult. p.s. The damage of Unification Church is very large in Japan. This religion isolates believers from the family, the office, and the school. And, they are brainwashed. Combatting Cult Mind Control : The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults (Paperback) by Steven Hassan http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0892813113/ Publisher: Park Street Press (October 1, 1990) ISBN: 0892813113 Jeffrey K. Hadden Department of Sociology University of Virginia Lecture: Unification Church http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/lectures/moonies.html |
| Posted by: MoneyG Aug 9 2005, 10:01 AM |
| Textbooks, ha that's easy... They come from the winners. And while this is disturbing, is it really that surprising. And if the same thing was happening here, would we know it? Btw, Hi Everyone, my name is Money. I came across this topic and seeing as how it seemed to have an intelligent discussion following it, I decided to chime in. And now to check out the rest of this forum. |
| Posted by: kpjc4eva Aug 10 2005, 05:54 AM |
| I wrote something here but it was almost impossible to decipher. It was perhaps interesting but it was riddled with “fuck”, “fucking shit” and so on, coupled with horrid grammar and syntax. I think I’ll read the rules and repost my message when I understand them and I get my shift key repaired. |
| Posted by: CDarklock Aug 12 2005, 04:42 AM |
| You know, one of the things that confuses me somewhat about this is that somewhere along the line is the unspoken idea that children shouldn't be this angry about the situation. Why not? I was twelve during the Falklands war in 1982, but I had strong opinions on it. They were extreme, and from what I know today, they were wrong. So why isn't it okay for Korean society to encourage their children to feel what they feel and say what they want to say? Sure, they're feeling and saying some pretty extreme and wrong things. But bad feelings don't go away when you hide them, they just get worse; I prefer knowing where those bad feelings are, so we can monitor them and take some precautions if they get too extreme. It may be odd to see children making such passionate and vitriolic statements, but honestly - I've never heard of Korean children blowing things up or shooting people at school. (To be fair, I don't really follow Korean news, but I think that would make the cut for America's five minutes of international coverage.) Maybe there's some connection between bottling up and concealing the passion of youth, and seeing that youth occasionally go completely bonkers and start slaughtering people. |
| Posted by: 8439701234 Aug 12 2005, 11:24 AM |
| I think that violence should not be estimulated. Ok, Japan sucks but there's a better way to make noise. Children are *very* influenciable... |
| Posted by: Necrite Aug 12 2005, 12:26 PM |
| I'm sorry, but what's your point? "Japan sucks"? Why? "There's a better way to make noise"? What are you suggesting? Sorry, but posts like that just don't help much, and don't last long after Lyrt sees 'em, so it's best to be as informative as possible. |
| Posted by: SugarD-x Sep 21 2005, 05:56 AM |
| Economy Although the islets themselves are relatively insignificant, the exclusive economic zone surrounding them has relatively rich fishing grounds and possible reserves of natural gas. These factors make them potentially valuable, even though they are relatively uninhabitable. That's why lol... |
| Posted by: Gord Sep 21 2005, 06:00 AM | ||
It's my understanding that ownership of the islets will not expand the current exclusive economic zone of either country as such an expansion can only accomplished by island ownership, not feature ownership. As the Liancourt Rocks are internationally recognized as being features rather than islands, no change in the EEZs would occur. |
| Posted by: cuchulainn Nov 7 2005, 03:56 AM |
| A Korean, hailing from Ithaca, New York. Boy, was I appalled to see the pictures. Well, I can't recall at any time that I was taught to hate the japanese people in my school days, but I can say that anti-japanese sentiment was very much prevalent back then. Of course, being a Korean, and being born and raised in Korea, I was taught to hate the Japanese folks. The bad thing is, there was no such thing as "critical reflection" of any sort. It was just blind hatred. It took good portion of my life span of over 30 years to realize that hating Japanese folks wasn't a sensible thing to do. At least for now, as far as I am concerned, I bear no grudge toward Japanese people. Seriously it scares me to think that there won't be as many lucky (like me) among the japanese-hating horde. The kids don't just come into this world knowing they have to hate the Japanese. It's but a work of the education. Korean educational system as shoddy and incompetent as it is, I find it hard to believe that this trend will change any time soon. To a degree, I am sad over what is going on over there. All right. Twice, the japanese people launched major attack on Korean penninsula. What does that have to with the Japanese now? I am not saying we should just forget what had transpired in the past. What I am concerned is that the legacy of Japanese invasion shouldn't hamper both Japan and Korea to move forward in the future - Past can't possibly be equal to the future, and the people in both countries don't seem to realize this. P.S. Not all Koreans agree to the propaganda. A number of people *that I know of* expressed concerns over whatever the kids were learning, as much as I can tell you all. |
| Posted by: cuchulainn Nov 7 2005, 04:05 AM | ||||
Contrary to your understanding, Gord, that's exactly what they (Korean teachers in Korean school) were teaching in school back then. It seems as though, that trend hasn't changed. |
| Posted by: Beowulf Nov 7 2005, 06:41 AM | ||
NOOOOO!!!! It's starting ALL OVER AGAIN!!! Also, Why use the Hound of Culain as your name? I remember my mother telling me that story. It always ended with, "and he was the best Red Branch knight of all." [/NOSTALGIA] |
| Posted by: cuchulainn Nov 7 2005, 12:43 PM | ||||
Huh? what do you mean "It's starting all over again"? Enlighten me. *Do I have to explain my choice of the nickname here?* |
| Posted by: Patrick Lee Nov 7 2005, 05:47 PM | ||
cuchulainn wrote
Read the previous 100+ posts under this topic and it will become clear. Over the past six months, this topic has been the home of a tremendous amount of rancor and ignorance. Unforunately, most of it has been sparked from a "dialog" between older members of this board and Korean and Japanese teenagers who have been neither patient nor effective rhetors. They get upset because other members of the forum don't buy into the very propaganda they have been taught is true, but which rests on the typically dubious evidence that conspiracy theories usually do. These kids say something that is factually and logically suspect, someone rebutts, they get mad, someone else tells them to get a life, they explode into profanity, someone else mocks them, they react, get baited again, and so on. Every time this topic gets opened back up, the fear of the vicious cycle is renewed. |
| Posted by: Beowulf Nov 8 2005, 06:02 AM | ||||
As I had hoped I had made clear in my last post, no. It merely sparked a long lost nostalgia for my irish roots.
Nothing because that statement is itself propoganda. |
| Posted by: dancing Dec 2 2005, 03:57 AM |
| This is pathetic. I am half hawaiian/korean and definately its the parents who are all that kids not pure korean, he's a bad influence. And that picture with the wives and the elders, fcuk those old grimy btches -rant |
| Posted by: real Feb 15 2006, 04:16 AM |
| yeah, the hatred still exist amonst all people. But...i think people are mature enough to think logically...they dont get hatred toward Japanese people (yeah I am korean) I dont hate japanese people. I used to hate the old country Japan which started the war and invaded my country. it s two sided, i hate my country too due to its lack of power to protect its own land. when you re child, you get to affected by everything you see and easily get believed in it. I used to hate north korea and north koreans..I thought every each person in north korea was evil minded person. Of course there was huge propaganda by government and media and school. but as you grow up, you get to exposed more non-biased history and knowledge and establish your own thought and mind. Yeah lots of korean people dont fond japanese gov not the people.. (they love cute japanes gals and guys haha) The best reason i can think of is....because there are still people who remember the war and the invasion and the sorrow at the time when korea was governed by japan. it is already 60 years ago? no it s been only sixty years ago and our grandpa still remembers it. that s why. it d be really hard to just forgive what japan had done in korea....what they caused in our own land and did to our people. They will forget eventually..and it will take some time to get the real peace btw countries...We ve been invaded by Mongolian too...but it was over 1000 years ago and it s forgotten by the hatred to a new enemy Japan. our history is pretty sad...all with invasions from other countries and acting like a servant to the big bros...like china or now to the US. and to those saying japan already paid back by establishing schools or investing money....yeah right. it s investment. they get more money on it. (i am not gonna talk about it it will be too long) Now young people dont really care about the hatred except when japanese gov talking about the Rock island (Dokdo) It is unfair when your neighbor insists that your tree at your backyard is his...it s just absurd and dont wanna spend another word to talk about it. oh..and another point... what would American kids think about Iranian, North korean which was taught as the axis of evil? they could be smart enough that those people are not responsible for their governments' evilish acts. But...still like seven year old kids who has family or friends died in war in Iraq?..think about it. |
| Posted by: Beowulf Feb 15 2006, 06:27 AM |
| NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Lyrt why haven't you closed this!?! |
| Posted by: Lyrt Feb 15 2006, 08:42 AM |
| Because I can’t. I have heavenly powers only in the general discussion forums. |
| Posted by: miso Mar 19 2006, 03:26 AM | ||||||
I believe in-school beatings have tapered off in the past half a century in South Korea (now, the teachers just don't care) which is a shame, really, because if I were a schoolteacher, I'd have taken the liberty of beating those kids myself. Thankfully, I don't intend on settling down with a profession in education.
I love jok-bal wrapped in cabbage leaf. To think with all this hatred, we'd continue eating something connected to the Japanese ... Barbequed wae-nom, anyone? It sucks to be Korean sometimes. And, with all those Japanese wives/students apologizing, it doesn't help much in ameliorating what genuine pride we have left.
Adding upon this observation, maybe those teachers should also improve upon their Geography curriculum for there are no major volcanoes in the northern regions of the DPRK.
And, you think that the LDP, with right-wingers like Aso and Abe, would approve a textbook detailing Japan's dark past. I'm not implying that the ROK or China wouldn't do the same with their textbooks; much of Northeast Asia continues to tread in fodder at waist-deep and conditions don't seem to be improving. |
| Posted by: Lyrt Mar 19 2006, 09:39 AM | ||
The LDP would and they actually did. |
| Posted by: miso Mar 19 2006, 07:15 PM | ||||
But, that is contrary to their belief that using such texts would be downright "masochistic history," something the Nationalists strongly oppose, hence the 2001 and Spring 2005 fiascos. |
| Posted by: Lyrt Mar 19 2006, 08:19 PM |
| Masochistic history is an expression coined by Nobukatsu Fujioka and I wouldn’t say that every member of the LDP would accept it as it is more a slogan than a complex interpretation of Japan’s textbooks. Oh, but I remember I started a thread about the textbook issue http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1184. |
| Posted by: 서재현 Apr 1 2006, 06:23 AM |
| Hello, you. I am a middle school student of the Korea. Japanese has come and American seems to have come. Do you know that journalize you in Tokto Island problem to like that children why? Because its Japan government insists continuously that Tokto Island of Tokto Island is Japan land that way though there are clear evidences called Korean land. There was general named a director department in the old South Korea, he conquered umbrella nation, that is, present Ullungdo. Tokto Island that belonged of umbrella department is become Korea's land because finally, is conquered together. Also, in ancient times, Tokto Island becomes Hangukttang to map that Doyotomi Hideyosi that unified Japan makes. Japanese governmental barbarity this be. Because they invade land of our country once upon a time, they colonize and made our country people very hard. German government apologized to the invading countries, but Japan government published a text book that is been back history distortion that developed our country through plunder to students preferably. Also, will not Koreans get angry justly as Junichiro Koizumi premier forces Tokto Island that be Yaseuku or prayed Shrine worship and is Korean land now that is Japan land? And work, duty plain, these pictures see Japanese barbarity through the press and it is are yearning voluntarily children and not thing which the Korean Government tries to stir up anti-Japanese sentiment to children. I had gotten angry at Japanese Tokto Island absurd remark to an elementary school pupil who do Jeotto. I wish you had understood this by all means. Tokto Island is Korean land. |
| Posted by: Lyrt Apr 1 2006, 08:57 AM | ||
That's so cute. I understand umbrella nation is dear to your heart and I hope it will soothe your mind on those rainy days. Bwahaha. Edit: you’ve just posted that same message four times in three different threads. Please, please, don’t do that again, thank you. |
| Posted by: Beowulf Apr 1 2006, 11:44 AM | ||||||
Holy crap, that thing reads like a spam email.
Thanks Yoda!
Ew.
So did you draw one of the pictures or what? Cause if your a middle school student then your a pretty good example of how a nations propoganda can affect its youth. |
| Posted by: Patrick Lee Apr 2 2006, 12:26 AM |
| Any guesses on whether this was written in hangul and translated via Babelfish or the like? |
| Posted by: tats Apr 20 2006, 02:43 PM |
| appearently Japan's going to go to the Liancourt rocks some time this month for an environmental research, "without Korea's permission". Korea fears that this is a "step toward invasion" of the Liancourt rocks, and they are practically smoking mad. japan's argument - "well, its not yours in the first place why bother asking your permission? shall we take the decision of this to UN?" korea's argument - "Dokdo is Korea's property and if you enter our EEZ, we will attack, and survivours will be nuked.(well actually they just said "capture") btw we dont follow UN rules anymore so you can't tell on UN, thiefs!" |
| Posted by: Beowulf Apr 20 2006, 06:45 PM |
| You should repost this in its own topic, the last thing we need is to give people another reason to come to this landmine of a thread. |
| Posted by: Gord Apr 20 2006, 07:59 PM |
| Unless someone changed the lawbooks recently, entering a country's EEZ is fine and dandy for anything except commercial harvesting. |
| Posted by: tats Apr 20 2006, 08:52 PM | ||
really!? cool, so you could technically just have a little swim over to the neighbouring country's EEZ and "take a closer look" to it, unless you land your foot on it? >>Beowulf um, sorry... |
| Posted by: miso Apr 21 2006, 07:48 PM |
| Apparently, foreign vessels--be it air or water--need clearance from the Korean government to approach the islands. Some no-name country should just come in and obliterate the rocks. |
| Posted by: KalendraDee Apr 28 2006, 02:57 AM |
| I'm not surprised by the pictures. I do highly doubt that the pictures were encouraged by teachers or government officials though. Sure, children are easily influenced because they haven't yet formed their own opinions, they haven't done any personal research to discover their own feelings about hyped topics like this. What they do know is that their elded (grandparents) remember the atrocities of comfort women and they hear their parents exclaim over Japan denying that history and striking it from the history book. Sure, at one time Japan taught of their actions in the war and now they are doing exactly the opposite. Korea will probably never forget any of the invasions or times spent living under the rule of a more powerful nation. Korea has been invaded and controlled by China, Mongolia, Japan and even some western nations in the past. In my opinion, it's better to not forgot, but it is also your responsibility to think informedly about the past. Forgetting is not the same as accepting what happened, learning from it, becoming a stronger individual or nation, and preparing for an improved future that won't need to rely on past transgressions. When the elder Koreans die, it still won't be forgotten, it just won't be passed down as easily. Not everyone in Korea hates Japan blindly. Many people love visiting Japan, love Japanes food, love Japanese animation - but that's not all Japan is, there is a history between Korea and Japan that is not easily overlooked. Sure, those children shouldn't have made such graphic pictures to be displayed in the subway. The parents should probably teach their children to be more open-minded. And the government should work to sooth the people and dissolve the issue. However, what westerners don't understand is that education in Korea and Japan is not like that of the west. In neither country are kids taught the skills of critical thinking, thinking for themselves, decision-making, etc. They are simply not taught these analytical skills. Tests are multiple choice, perhaps once a semester they will have one project that requires them to write and think about something individually. If you expect young kids to have these skills, it is simply not taught to them. Class sizes are too large, teachers don't take the time to create tests that require filling in the answers in complete sentences. As for the parents, discipline is left to the teachers-even for behavior outside of school. You can expect there was little reaction among the parents. The parents usually only get involved when their childs test score is the topic of discusson. Perhaps this is more rant, than information, but as appalling as the pictures were didn't you ever watch Roadrunner or Tom and Jerry? Where do you think kids learn about such crazy violence, besides the daily news? The government and parents should certainly be more responsible in the upbringing of young Koreans and Japanese but it would also help if both countries could agree the past happened and start a bit more fresh, yet neither is willing to make any concessions to the other. Japan thinks of itself as a more well-known world power and Korea is not powerful or well-known in the UN etc. What can Korea do other than say, these islands were Korean before Japan invaded, once the occupation ended they should again have been noted as Korean assets, so today they are Korean...what more could they say to be heard and accepted? And in the end do you care? Does the west care whose property they are? I think not, which in turn creates a more explosive situation. |
| Posted by: Patrick Lee Apr 28 2006, 01:26 PM |
| You are a little late to the party. The ice-cream has already melted in the punch. |
| Posted by: Hellsau Apr 28 2006, 04:17 PM |
| Wasn't this locked? |
| Posted by: Beowulf Apr 30 2006, 10:03 AM | ||
![]() ![]() Hahaha, yeah that's pretty much the same thing. Seriously though, we don't care and please shut up. |
| Posted by: fokoreans Jun 23 2006, 05:49 AM |
| People must learn to cope with reality and understand the only way to survival is to learn from our mistakes. Hate takes you nowhere if it does, it will take you back again to the beginning. Korean must learn to forgive and move on. Just like the american indians did, like the australian aboriginies did, just like the japanese did, just like the blacks did, just like most of the races and countries did. If not they will be condemn to be judged and will likely repeat their story, someone will overrule them again. Finally, shooting missiles to other countries is definitively not the answer. This will only cause other countries to wipe them off. |
| Posted by: Necrite Jun 23 2006, 07:19 AM | ||
No, but I really wish it would be. |
| Posted by: Beowulf Jun 24 2006, 10:14 AM | ||||
Unintentional hilarity!
When will you people learn that we just don't care anymore? |
| Posted by: Hellsau Jun 24 2006, 02:52 PM |
| I care, it's just that it is no longer the hilarity it was a couple pages ago. Ahhhh, the good old days.... |
| Posted by: lkyykl Feb 27 2007, 09:49 AM |
| hey i know this is a pretty late post but i think you guys should know 1) what has been going on we've been talking a lot about this in corean forums as well and most of us also agree that the violent content is inappropriate and that if there were teachers who encouraged such drawings, we do not approve of it, and it has been criticized quite deeply 2) what was going on when the posters were drawn please try to understand.. they say these posters, were from about 2 to 3 years ago, when the issues surrounding dokdo were really hot and controversial, and also if you take a look at Corea's history, you might understand a bit more about why the elders (who the children receive much influence from) would react with such passionate anger 3) the artists? yes, they are children 4) the writer the writer has misunderstood some of the pictures (why you aren't corean! surprise, surprise) , and certainly picks on certain pictures only 5) do you know what else is going on ? we have our facts, figures, maps, interesting historical anecdotes, cellular connections that support our ground other than these photos, we have peaceful protests, organizations, groups and more that go along with our stance so please, do not conclude so quickly that these pictures represent our political movements, organizations, the minds of our children and our people on behalf of our country, I'd like to apologize for the posters and the actions of the teachers who may have supported those drawings we will prove our claims about Dokdo in more rational justified ways with practical proof |
| Posted by: crutingly Feb 27 2007, 08:34 PM |
| Lock this thread already. |